Without Precedent Podcast

Without Precedent is a monthly podcast series hosted by Professor Eli Edwards of Santa Clara University School of Law and Nikki Pope, Managing Director of the High Tech Law Institute at Santa Clara University School of Law. Without Precedent examines the impact of technology innovations on the law and legal practice. Edwards and Pope invite technologists, inventors, judges, academics, lawyers, and politicians to discuss how law can keep up with technological innovation.


Our goal is to post one episode each month. If there is a topic you’d like us to consider or if you’d like to appear on our podcast, please contact us.

Without Precedent is sponsored by the High Tech Law Institute. The views expressed on Without Precedent are solely the views of the participants and do not reflect the views of the High Tech Law Institute, Santa Clara Law, or Santa Clara University, and should not be construed as legal advice.


 Eli Edwards, Nikki Pope, Nicole Jacobus

The Without Precedent team, left to right: Eli Edwards, Nikki Pope, Nicole Jacobus

Production Credits:

Producers: Eli Edwards and Nikki Pope

Editor: Nicole Jacobus

Sound Engineer: Fern Silva

Music: Nicole Jacobus

Website Design: Michelle Waters

Content: Nikki Pope and Eli Edwards

Guest Bookings: Eli Edwards and Nikki Pope


Episode 2 – October 2019

Kenton Brice: VR in Legal Training & Education

Without Precedent welcomes Kenton Brice, Director of Technology Innovation at Oklahoma University College of Law to talk about how he is incorporating virtual reality in the law school curriculum and other technology initiatives at the law school.

In 2014, OU Law became the first US law school to launch a comprehensive college-wide Digital Initiative. Learn more about it at the OU Law website.

Other Resources and Opinions:

How Tech Is Helping Courtroom Newbies Become Virtual Pros,” Brandon Lowrey, Law360, July 28, 2019

Curriculum Comes Alive: How Two Law Schools Use Virtual Reality in the Classroom,” Zach Warren, Law.com, July 14, 2019

How are law schools using virtual reality tools in classrooms?” Anna Stolley Persky, ABA Journal, January 1, 2019

Law schools dive into virtual reality experiences for their students,” Gerardo Alvarez, March 9, 2018

Episode 1 – September 2019

California State Bar (CalBar) Task Force on Access Through Innovation of Legal Services

Without Precedent welcomes Joanna Mendoza, a CalBar trustee, and Mary Grace Guzmán, an attorney who represents clients before CalBar. The CalBar Task Force has been looking into ways to increase the availability of legal services for underserved communities in California. Our guests discuss the pros and cons of various options being considered.

Learn more about the Task Force’s work at the CalBar website. CalBar is soliciting public comments on possible reforms until Monday, September 23, 2019.

Other Resources and Opinions:

Legal Market Landscape Report,” William D. Henderson, Commissioned by the State Bar of California, July 2018

Nonlawyers could offer legal advice and partly own law firms under these California proposals,” Debra Cassens Weiss, ABA Journal, July 15, 2019

California Task Force to Vote This Week on Sweeping Changes to Legal Services Delivery,” Bob Ambrogi, Above The Law, June 24, 2019

I Complained. I volunteered. I’m not disappointed.” Heather Morse, The Legal Watercooler Blog, May 13, 2019